Full transcript of “Face the Nation,” Oct. 1, 2023

Full transcript of “Face the Nation,” Oct. 1, 2023

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On this “Face the Nation” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan: 

  • House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, Republican of California 
  • Democratic New York Gov. Kathy Hochul 
  • Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina 
  • Mark Esper, Trump administration Secretary of Defense 
  • Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick, Republican of Pennsylvania, and Josh Gottheimer, Democrat of New Jersey

Click here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”    


MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.

And this week on Face the Nation: crisis averted, as Congress passes a short-term funding extension to keep the government open.

We will speak exclusively this Sunday morning with House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

In a dramatic 11th-hour scramble on Capitol Hill, lawmakers voted to extend government funding at current levels for 45 days. The bill passed with overwhelmingly bipartisan support. But did House Speaker Kevin McCarthy alienate the GOP hard-liners who refused to vote for it? We will ask him.

What’s missing in the bill? Any help to deal the border crisis, and there’s no aid to Ukraine, which the Biden administration says will run out before the November 17 deadline.

We will talk to South Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham and Trump administration Defense Secretary Mark Esper.

What’s included in the bill? Sixteen billion in disaster relief. That type of funding will help with once-unthinkable scenes like the New York flooding. The state’s governor, Kathy Hochul, will join us.

Bipartisanship saved the day this time around on Capitol Hill. Can it happen again? We will talk to the heads of the self-proclaimed House Problem Solvers Caucus, New Jersey Democrat Josh Gottheimer and Pennsylvania Republican Brian Fitzpatrick.

Finally, a tribute to trailblazing California Senator Dianne Feinstein, who died last week at the age of 90.

And the nation’s longest-lived president celebrates his 99th.

It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.

Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.

Congress has done it once again. They have kicked the proverbial can down the road, passing a 45-day funding bill to keep the government running. Now the deadline for getting spending bills passed is November 17.

Joining us this morning, the speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy.

Good morning.

You have had a heck of a week.

(LAUGHTER)

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-California): Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: There is a lot to get to with you.

I want to start, though, on the news this morning from Congressman Matt Gaetz, who says he’s going to seek a motion to vacate. He’s going to try to oust you as speaker of the House.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, that’s nothing new. He’s tried to do that from the moment I ran for office.

Look…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, this time, he says he’s going to keep going. “May not get there before the 15th ballot, but it took 15 for Kevin McCarthy.”

He says he’s coming for you. Can you survive?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Yes, I will survive.

You know, this is personal with Matt. Matt voted against the most conservative ability to protect our border, secure our border. He’s more interested in securing TV interviews than doing something. He wanted to push us into a shutdown, even threatening his own district, with all the military people there who would not be paid, only because he wants to take this motion.

So be it. Bring it on. Let’s get over with it and let’s start governing. If he’s upset because he tried to push us in a shutdown, and I made sure government didn’t shut down, then let’s have that fight.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You need 218 votes to vacate.

Has Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader, said that he will…

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: No, he hasn’t said…

MARGARET BRENNAN: No what?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: He hasn’t said anything about what he’s going to do. Look…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Will Democrats – Democrats could cross over and follow Gaetz’s lead on this.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Yeah, he – he…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you confident?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Look, Gaetz is trying to work with Democrats. He’s reached out to Swalwell, to AOC and others.

But if that’s the way we’re going to govern, I don’t think America is going to be successful. Look, at the end of the day, think of everything we’ve been able to accomplish so far, parents Bill of Rights. We passed the most conservative bill to protect our border, make America energy-independent.

We’ve been able to cut $2 trillion, and the debt ceiling, get work requirements back in. The hard part we have right now…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … is, the Senate has not passed one appropriation bill. Each body is supposed to pass 12. We’ve passed more than 70 percent of the discretionary spending already.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But those…

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I thought it was appropriate…

MARGARET BRENNAN: … have no chance of surviving in the Senate and making it into law.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, you said that…

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we have 45 days to go here.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: You said that same thing when we – when we stopped the D.C. from decriminalizing everything. You said the same thing when we said we’re going to stop the pandemic…

MARGARET BRENNAN: I don’t think I ever talked about those things…

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, no…

MARGARET BRENNAN: … to be honest with you. But…

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … you and many the press would – do think, why pass it? Because the Senate won’t take it up and won’t sign it.

Most in the press probably thought we would have shut down yesterday too. But, no, we did not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Did you – were you confident we wouldn’t shut down?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I was confident I could get something on the floor to make sure the option that we would not.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you weren’t…

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: But our military…

MARGARET BRENNAN: … sure it was going to pass.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well – well, I wasn’t sure it was going to pass. You want to know why?

Because the Democrats tried to do everything they can not to let it pass. They did dilatory…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Democrats were the ones who voted for this…

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Did you – did you watch – did you watch it?

MARGARET BRENNAN: … in a large number of Republicans to keep the continuing resolution alive.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Did you watch the floor yesterday?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Oh, yes.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: OK, then…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Ninety Republicans voted against it. One Democrat voted against it.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: OK, so let’s walk – let’s walk through what actually happened.

First of all, the Democrats stood up and did dilatory actions, asked to adjourn. So, was that supporting to adjourn? Then they used the magic minute. They went as far as pulling the fire alarm not to try to get the bill to come up.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s Jamaal Bowman.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Look, Democrats stick together, but they did not want the bill. They did not – they – they were willing to let government shut down, for our military not to be paid.

No, I wasn’t. We were going to make sure we keep it open while we finish the job we’re supposed to do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You got 45 days.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: That’s right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So…

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, technically 47, but…

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

Senator Cornyn said of you last night, you pulled a rabbit out of the hat a couple of times. I mean, he’s acknowledging this was tough. Are we going to be staring down another shutdown November 17?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, it all comes down to the Senate. The Senate hasn’t done one thing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But, in the House, are we going to be facing another shutdown November 17?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: No, because the House is doing their work.

We’ve already done more than 70 percent of it. So compare this to the Senate. The Senate hasn’t passed one bill. The Senate didn’t pass anything about the shutdown. The Senate hasn’t passed anything about securing the border. The Senate hasn’t passed anything about $100 a barrel.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The House hasn’t passed anything about the border that could actually could become law.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Yes, we have.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Not that could become law.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Be – that’s your opinion.

The House is its own body. The Senate is its own body. We’re not going to surrender to the Senate. We passed what the American people want. I will tell you, each and every day – and don’t take my word for it. You’re going to have the governor of New York on it…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … who told people to go somewhere else.

The New York City mayor literally says it’s destroying a city.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Will you have…

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: No, let me answer – let me answer your questions…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you going to have a proposal?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … since you said we wouldn’t do something.

Do you know the governor of Massachusetts has declared a state of emergency? This is one of the number one crisis…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Absolutely.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … as far from the border as you can see. This is killing Americans every single day.

MARGARET BRENNAN: There was no border funding in the continuing resolution that passed last night.

But let me ask you about Ukraine.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, no. No, but that’s not fair to just say that. Let’s under…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, there wasn’t.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: OK.

Well, let’s – let’s…

(LAUGHTER)

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Let’s – let’s educate the viewers why there wasn’t, because, the day before, there was.

But Matt Gaetz and others…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: … denied that and voted no. So, we could have had border security.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I went all the way through everything we could until the last moment.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: And you know what? We’re going to be able to win that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: When will you be able to bring a vote on Ukraine aid? The White House says that you have – are going to do this quickly.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Look, the priority for me is America and our borders.

Now, I support being able to make sure Ukraine has the weapons that they need.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: But I firmly support the border first. So we’ve got to find a way that we can do this together.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you mean the border first? Because the White House briefed Congress that 45 days, they don’t have enough money allowable to them to get through it.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: They have more – they have more than 3 – they have more than $3 billion right now to be able to help them get through it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: If they have some challenge, we can sit down, and we can talk about that. But the American border matters.

And more people..

MARGARET BRENNAN: Of course.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: More Americans are dying on our border than Americans are dying in Ukraine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you are explicitly right now linking any Ukraine aid vote to a border bill?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I’m telling – I’m telling…

MARGARET BRENNAN: It won’t be a stand-alone Ukraine bill?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I’m telling you that the American border matters. And that is our priority to make sure we secure that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, that has to move first?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: I’m going to make sure that the weapons are provided for Ukraine, but they’re not going to get some big package if the border is not secure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you haven’t figured out yet the vehicle through which to move that Ukraine aid or a date by which to do it, or border?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: We will work with people in need. But the one thing the White House has to understand, they better be prepared to secure American border. It matters.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What does that mean, specifically? What are you looking for there?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well, the – the bill you think that won’t go anywhere could easily do it, H.R.2, remain in Mexico, finish the wall. You’ve got to change asylum to be able to secure this border.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That is the bill, the border bill, that you want passed?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Yes, not want.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you are now, it sounds like, attaching it to Ukraine aid.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Not that I – not that I want it passed. It is passed. And the Senate has done nothing. So, let’s see where the Senate can go.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You just said you wanted border first. So you’re not talking about holding a new vote in the House on the border. I’m trying to clarify what you’re talking about here.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: OK, so – OK, so not to be – but how it works is, the House passes a bill, the Senate passes a bill, and you go to conference.

The House has already done their job.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: The Senate – and we’ve done this in Approps. The Senate has done nothing.

So what I am saying is, when you saw government funding, there is a need for Ukraine. I support being able to provide the weapons to Ukraine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: But America comes first.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK, so you’re not sequencing the bills, or was – weren’t meaning to suggest that in your comments earlier?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Yes. Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right? OK. Wanted to make sure I understood that.

How much harder did your job get when Donald Trump came out and said that Republicans should shut down if they don’t get everything they need?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Well…

MARGARET BRENNAN: And are you going to endorse him explicitly?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Look, I think – I think President Trump’s going to be our nominee and President Trump’s going to win, because President Trump’s policies made America stronger. We didn’t have inflation. We had a secure border.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you endorsing him now?

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: We didn’t – we didn’t have $100 barrel oil.

So what I totally find is, the president is going to be our nominee, the president is going to win reelection, President Trump, for the basis that we want to make America stronger. And the other thing too is, look what’s happening in foreign policy today. You’ve got five American embassies that had to be evacuated.

You’ve got this new axis of power growing against. You’ve got a challenge when you – our own allies are now turning towards China.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: It’s a lack of leadership, not just in foreign policy within our border and everywhere else.

This president has been in elected office for 50 years. Do you know he has spent more dinners with Hunter Biden’s business associates than he has visiting the border?

MARGARET BRENNAN: I have heard you say that. Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Yes, don’t you think that’s important, then? One time in 50 years.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Do you know how many people will die today from fentanyl coming across our border?

MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s a scourge.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: It’s the equivalent of an airliner crashing every single day in America.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: And they refuse to even visit it or do something about it. So, we are going to make sure this border becomes secure.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will watch for what that means legislatively.

Speaker, thank you very much for your time today.

REPRESENTATIVE KEVIN MCCARTHY: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The rainfall in New York these past few days shattered records, with the most rain ever recorded in one day in some places.

Once unimaginable, these kinds of scenes are becoming more common and the need for disaster aid more urgent.

New York Governor Kathy Hochul joins us from Albany.

Good morning, Governor.

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL (D-New York): Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You called this life-threatening rainfall event.

The subways were shut. Part of La Guardia Airport shut down due to flooding. I mean, this is stunning. Do you have an assessment of the level of damage?

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL: Well, that’s exactly what we’re doing right now, Margaret, is asking the local counties and the boroughs that were affected to add up the amount of money.

It has to hit a certain threshold in order to be eligible for FEMA reimbursement. And that’s another whole topic about how, with these all- too-frequent 100-year storms – and, indeed, we had a 1,000-year storm event just a couple of months ago.

We need to reassess how we reimburse states and homeowners after these cataclysmic weather events. And so we’re doing the assessment right now. That’ll take place over the next couple of weeks.

But we got through the worst. But, in my position, having issued nine weather-related emergency declarations in the two years I have been governor, we have to be ready for this to happen again even in another week from now. So, that is – that is the new world we’re in.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, late last night, Congress did reauthorize the National Flood Insurance Program. That was in question for a bit.

What federal aid are you expecting to need here?

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL: Well, we need help to help build up our resiliency, help the business owners that had to shut down, help reimburse localities for the overtime and the extra resources they had to expand with emergency teams on the ground.

We had 28 rescues from our swift-water rescue teams. And all that should be reimbursable from the federal government. So, we have our list. But, again, for the Republicans in Congress to even toy with the fact and hold over our heads there might not be flood insurance or disaster assistance up until the final hour, that’s unconscionable.

And it’s tone-deaf to what states like New York and many others are going through in this new area – era of climate change, where the unknown is becoming the norm here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But given this concern about fiscal spending, I do want to ask you.

NASA had a report out a few days ago saying parts of New York City are sinking from both human and natural factors. And that can impact flooding risk. So, if that’s true, you have to rebuild a whole lot of infrastructure. And taxpayers did pump in billions to that national effort.

Is there enough in the federal infrastructure plans here to do what you need to do?

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL: Well, we’re not the only vulnerable part of our country.

Look at low-lying areas of Florida and other states that are just being pummeled with hurricanes. And so, no, all of our states are going to need some level of greater assistance. And for, again, Congress to even question whether they’ll do the basics for us, and hold our – hold us hostage, wondering if we’re going to be able to get this essential relief for our homeowners and our businesses, that’s just wrong.

So, yes, we need a full assessment of communities like New York City. One of our challenges in New York City and why the flooding is so – you know, so devastating and floods into our subways and – and homes is that the New York City sewer system was built over 100 years ago with a capacity of 1.75 inches per hour.

We shattered that record just a couple of days ago. We had double that. So the volume of water needs a place to go. So, we need massive infrastructure dollars.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL: And I thank President Biden for helping send money to states like New York to help us build up that resiliency. But it’s going to be a long process.

In the meantime, we’re always having to prepare for the next disaster.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But it’s stunning that a trillion dollars is not – is not sufficient nationally.

I want to ask you as well about the other crisis you’ve been raising alarms about, and that is the strain due to migrants. There were no border provisions in this congressional bill that just passed. And I know you’ve said you’ve had to manage without help from Washington.

What would you ask Congress to get done in the next 45 days?

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL: Well, shame on Speaker McCarthy and the Republicans in Congress, including the nine from New York state who are complaining like crazy about the migrants, but refuse to work with President Biden and come up with a sensible border strategy.

It can be done. This can be done in a bipartisan way, comprehensive immigration reform, whether it’s quotas, certain numbers…

(CROSSTALK)

MARGARET BRENNAN: What specifically do you want?

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL: Well, we want them to have a limit on who can come across the border. It is too open right now.

People coming from all over the world are finding their way through, simply saying they need asylum, and the majority of them seem to be ending up in the streets of New York. And that is a real problem for New York City, 125,000 newly arrived individuals. And we are being taxed. Now, we are always so proud of the fact that New York has the Statue of Liberty in our harbor – harbor. We are one of the most diverse places on Earth because of our welcoming nature and our – it’s in our DNA to welcome immigrants.

But there has to be some limits in place. And Congress has to put more controls at the border, and not in this budget threat…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL: … shutdown threat talk about eliminating positions for Border Patrol, while we actually need to double or quadruple those numbers.

So, get back to work and do your jobs.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Governor, good luck.

Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re back now with South Carolina Republican Senator Lindsey Graham.

Good to have you here in person, Senator.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-South Carolina): Thank you. Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You just voted for a short-term deal that doesn’t include a cent…

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … for Ukraine, nor for the U.S. border.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How did you swallow that?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: We had to keep the government open. We got 45 days to fix both problems.

I listened to Kevin closely. There will come out of the Senate soon a bill that will have three legs to it, disaster funding – we need more, not less – robust funding for Ukraine to get them through the next fighting season, not $24 billion, and a major effort to secure our border.

I believe there’s bipartisan support in the Senate to do both. And it will go to the House hopefully in the next 30 days.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What the speaker was talking about, though, was a bill, H.R.2, regarding the border that Senate Democrats will never get on board with.

So, what are you talking about?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: There will be a com – right.

So, we got to fix asylum. We need border security agent increases. We need more detention beds. I think there’s Democratic support for major border security reform. But we have to attach it to Ukraine. To those who say we need to fix our border, you’re right.

To those who say we need to help Ukraine, you’re right. To those who say we need to do the border, not Ukraine, you’re wrong. The vast majority of Senate Republicans would support a combination of border security, Ukraine funding and disaster aid.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

Well, when it comes to the House…

(LAUGHTER)

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … and the idea that we got to move swiftly, right…

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: … the White House told Republican leadership that they don’t have enough funding for Ukraine to make it through 45 days and the authorities they have are insufficient.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes. Well…

MARGARET BRENNAN: So how much time are you talking about needing?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I have been around a while. I’m wearing a pin. Do you think I would leave Ukraine hanging?

I don’t believe that one bit. This same White House says we don’t need to F-16s, we don’t need HIMARS, we don’t need tanks. I have lost confidence in their evaluation of what’s going on in Ukraine? We have got a bunch of allies. They can help for six weeks.

The allies have spent more money in Ukraine than we have. And when you hear otherwise, it’s just not true. It’s been good burden-sharing. But I’m not worried about the next six weeks. I’m worried about next year. We will produce in the United States Senate Ukraine funding $60 billion or $70 billion, not 24, to get them through next year.

We will have a border security measure that is strong. And we will have additional disaster aid, because the nation needs it. We’re going to do those three things. And I’m hoping our House colleagues will react positively to it.

I think Kevin is the right guy at the right time. The only way he loses his job is if a handful of Republicans join up with the Democratic Party to fire him. That would be a disaster for the future of the Republican Party.

MARGARET BRENNAN: They’re working on it.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: That’s not going to happen. Kevin has the overwhelming confidence of his membership.

He worked to avoid a shutdown. He will help Ukraine, but he’s telling everybody in the country, including me…

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: … you better send something over for the border for me to help Ukraine.

And he’s right to make that demand.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Understand.

But you’re look – you’re talking about, to be clear, a supplemental bigger than $24 billion for Ukraine.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: A lot bigger.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And that’s going to pass in 45 days?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Oh, absolutely.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: You know why? Because we need it.

We haven’t lost one soldier in the Ukraine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: We spent less than 5 percent of our military budget.

(CROSSTALK)

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Fifty percent of the Russian army has been destroyed by the Ukrainians.

They would be at Crimea already if the administration hadn’t been so slow in giving weapons.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And we dedicate a lot of time to Ukraine on this program.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: OK.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So we find it important.

But I want to ask you, because Leader McConnell had gone into the lunch yesterday telling Senate leaders that he believed the White House when they said they were running out of funding for Ukraine. And then his deputies apparently urged him to drop it, which is how you ended up with this bill with nothing in it for Ukraine.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is he in control of the caucus, of the conference?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Senator McConnell’s been great on Ukraine, but he picked a formula to lose votes for Ukraine.

To expect people like me and others to vote for Ukraine without border security is unreasonable. Mitch made a miscalculation. He’s been great on Ukraine. I told him 1,000 times the key to Ukraine funding is to deal with a broken border; 107,000 Americans have died from fentanyl poisoning, from fentanyl coming across the Southern border.

We haven’t lost one soldier in Ukraine. So, America is being invaded from a broken Southern border. To my Democratic colleagues, you need to take border security seriously.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

Are you saying that Ukraine should not be a stand-alone? It has to be directly…

(CROSSTALK)

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: It will not be a stand-alone.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It will not.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: When I go to South Carolina, I openly talk about helping Ukraine.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What…

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: If you let Putin get away with this, you have a bigger war.

Well, what about our border? I promise people in South Carolina I’m going to do two things.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I’m going to help secure our border and keep the fight going in Ukraine to make sure that Putin doesn’t get away with this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Have you asked Donald Trump, your friend, to come out and publicly support more aid to Ukraine and to push some of these skeptical members of the Republican Conference?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I will leave it up to him to what to do.

But he wanted to get out of Afghanistan.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Vladimir Putin has been praising him for his comments about Russia and Ukraine.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, well, here’s what I will say about President Trump.

He did not pull the plug on Afghanistan, even though he wanted to. The biggest mistake we have made since the war on terror is withdrawing from Afghanistan.

To President Trump and anybody else, if we pull the plug on Ukraine, that’s 10 times worse than Afghanistan. There goes Taiwan. To stop funding Ukraine is a death sentence for Taiwan. Putin will keep going. You missed all of World War II if you don’t know how this movie ends.

To the Republicans who say Ukraine doesn’t matter to us, you’re wrong. Respectfully, you’re wrong. The war gets bigger, not smaller. There goes Taiwan. If Ukraine can beat Russia, China’s less likely to invade Taiwan, and Putin gets stopped.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I need to take a break here, but we have more to talk about with you, Senator.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: I will be back.

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: You will.

(LAUGHTER)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Graham’s going to stay with us.

And we’re going to talk about the legacy as well of Senator Dianne Feinstein on the other side of that break.

We will be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: If you’re looking for political news that goes beyond the headlines, be sure to tune in weekdays to our CBS News streaming politics broadcast America Decides Monday through Thursday 5:00, 6:00, and 9:00 p.m. on CBS and Paramount+ apps and on CBSNews.com.

We will be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right – we will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation, including a look at the legacy of Dianne Feinstein.

Former Defense Secretary Mark Esper will be with us. And we will talk to the Congressional Problem Solvers.

Stay with us.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to FACE THE NATION.

We turn now to the life and the legacy of California Senator Dianne Feinstein, who died late last week.

(BEGIN VT)

DIANNE FEINSTEIN (Former U.S. Senator): Women are seen as spear throwers of change. It – we’re not the same thing repeating itself.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Then Senate candidate Dianne Feinstein first appeared on FACE THE NATION in 1992.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Feinstein, is – is gender a plus or a minus for you?

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: There’s so many men back there and we don’t see anything happening.

MARGARET BRENNAN: The Californian was a pioneer, winning her seat in the year of the woman. The Senate went from two female lawmakers to six. Feinstein said it was the first time she felt her gender wasn’t a negative for voters.

When she was elected to the San Francisco Board of Supervisors in 1969, there weren’t many women in public office.

Feinstein became the first female mayor of the city following the assassination of two of her colleagues.

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Both Mayor Moscone and Supervisor Harvey Milk have been shot and killed.

MARGARET BRENNAN: She never forget that experience and championed gun laws, including the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban when she reached the Senate.

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: I am quite familiar with firearms. I became mayor as a product of assassination.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I’m aware of that.

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: I found my assassinated colleague and put a finger through a bullet hole.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Though it expired ten years later, her passionate campaign continued.

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: Let me talk about rights for a minute. Does a child have a right to be safe in school? Does a law client, when it goes – he goes into a law firm have a right to believe he’s safe? Does a shopper in a mall have a right to believe that she’s safe? I think so.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That position put her at odds with conservatives.

But she became a deal making centrist, an increasingly rare breed in Washington. And at times challenged her own party.

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: This is not what Americans do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: As the first woman to head the powerful Intelligence Committee, she sparred with the CIA director and accused the agency of trying to cover up its past abuse of terror suspects.

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: We’re supposed to be better than that. We don’t have to torture people.

MARGARET BRENNAN: America, she argued, is big enough to admit when it is wrong and should be confident enough to learn from its mistakes.

Being a pioneer wasn’t easy as she told Bob Schieffer in 2009.

DIANNE FEINSTEIN: We women have had to fight for everything we’ve gotten in the public arena. We weren’t given the right to vote. We had to fight for it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Today, women make up a quarter of the Senate, following a path she helped to forge.

(END VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Graham was one of the Republicans, as you saw there in that piece, who worked with Senator Feinstein actually quite closely in the Judiciary Committee.

LINDSEY GRAHAM : Yes, loved her. She was great.

When I first got to the Senate, somebody told me, I’ll protect their – their name here, if you want to get anything done, see if you can get Ted Kennedy and/or Dianne Feinstein to help you because if they got on your bill or your idea, the people in the Democratic caucus would listen. If Ted was the lion, she was the lioness. She could move votes. She knew how to get to yes on things. She was always kind. She was always prepared. She was a defense hawk. She was socially liberal. She was my friend. I miss her. And if you’re looking for a role model in politics as a young man or woman, look to her life.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, there is also that image of her embracing you after that very contentious hearing.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett.

And she was criticized from within her own party for praising how you conducted yourself.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes. Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you think about that now?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Well, that says more about the current state of affairs than Dianne. Dianne was saying nice things. We had like a five- second hug. And – because she wanted to say something nice about me they thought she had to be off the committee. That’s what’s wrong with – Dianne wasn’t the problem, she was the solution.

And there are people on my side. It goes both ways. So, let’s just do this. Let’s reflect on a well-loved life. America’s better for Dianne Feinstein having served our country. California is better for it. And we lost a lot. We just didn’t lose a person, we lost an idea. And I want my – my contribution is to try to reinvigor the idea it’s OK to be tough and kind. It’s OK to be liberal or conservative, but it’s even more OK to work for America. And that’s what she did.

We’ve lost a lot with Dianne. So, the rest of us, we’re going to have to up our game.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Before I let you go, I want to quickly ask you, she was also an outspoken proponent for abortion access, right?

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: She was.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you going to reintroduce your bill limiting it to 15 weeks of access, which has kind of become a litmus test for a lot of these presidential candidates.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Yes, I will.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Donald Trump has not signed on. He said he didn’t like 15 weeks.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: My bill has exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother. Forty-seven or 50 European nation – 50 European nations limit abortion from 12 to 15 weeks. Fifteen weeks, the baby can suck its thumb and feel pain. I want introduce that bill. I want America to be like the civilized world and not China or North Korea. It’s a debate worthy of a great country to have this debate, and we will have it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Graham, thank you for your time.

SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM: Thank you.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to the former secretary of defense under President Trump, and author of “A Sacred Oath,” Mark Esper.

Good to have you back with us today.

You know we are –

MARK ESPER (Former Secretary of Defense): Good morning, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We are having conversations about just how politically difficult basic matters of governance are in Washington. And I wonder what sign you think that send to our adversaries around the world?

MARK ESPER: Well, thank you, Martha – Margaret, for having me on this morning.

First, let me also salute Dianne Feinstein as we mourn her passing. She was a real leader in the Senate. You know, at times she would buck her party. She could reach across the aisle. She was a real leader from my time on Capitol Hill. And we’re going to miss her. And we need more people like her. So, again, my condolences and my salute out to her.

Look, on your question with regard to what our allies see, Vladimir Putin sits in Russia today and he looks across the landscape and he sees the United States of America, which is unwilling to spend what it needs to on defense. It is now pulling back spending for Ukraine. We’ve seen successive Republican votes where more and more Republicans vote against funding for Ukraine. He sees coups in Africa. They’re pushing western militaries out. He has a pro sympathetic or sympathetic Serbia that’s massing troops on the border of Kosovo. We had a vote today in Slovakia, a NATO ally in central Europe, that just picked a prime minister who is pro-Russian and has promised to cut spending for Ukraine.

Look, from his vantage point, the west is fracturing. And he’s going to continue to wait out the clock and maybe hope that Donald Trump returns to the presidency.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I wanted to ask you specifically about that because in your book you write extensively about your frustration with getting then President Trump to support aid to Ukraine. And that was before the full- scale invasion. That was when Russian troops were just in the east of the country.

He still, to this day, is not coming out in support of aid to Ukraine. And as we just talked about, Vladimir Putin has said some of the comments he’s made make him happy. What does that mean in terms of what we should expect if there is a second Trump presidency?

MARK ESPER: Well, I suspect that he will do what he says, and that is he will come to office. He will somehow attempt to negotiate a deal between Russia and Ukraine, and that won’t fly. There’s only one person that can get – end this conflict in Ukraine, and that’s Vladimir Putin. And he’s not about to do that any time soon. So I suspect Trump will quickly move to end funding for Ukraine and then at some point he’s also going to move to withdraw funding for NATO and maybe even pull out of NATO, which would be disastrous for United States national security.

So, for all those reasons, that concerns me. And then, of course, we could talk about our allies and partners in Asia as well who will equally be concerned about these type of events.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, I mean, you’re clear, you’re not supporting the former president’s bid to return to office. But, you know, the governor of Florida, also presidential candidate, has – has raised his personal objections to, you know, limitless checks as well. So, do you like any of the Republican candidates right now?

MARK ESPER: Well, first, let me say, there should not be any blank checks for Ukraine, right? And every – all of – everything we provide should be audited and accounted for. That’s just good government.

MARGARET BRENNAN: As it is.

MARK ESPER: But – but, look, on the – on the bigger question, look, I’m disappointed in – in some in my party who are not picking up that – the mantle of Ronald Reagan. I consider myself a Reagan Republican. Ronald Reagan would definitely support these young, fledgling democracies, whether it’s Ukraine, in Europe, which is being invaded by its larger, bigger, dictatorial neighbor, or Taiwan, in – in Asia, that’s being intimidated and threatened by China. That’s what Ronald Reagan stands for.

I – look, I think there are – that said, I think there are a few Republicans in the debates right now who I could support, who are better certainly than Trump, and who could beat President Biden. And I think for Republicans, we’ve got to quickly find that person, rally around them and then bring the party together and run a strong candidate.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Who? You want to give me a name?

MARK ESPER: Look, I think we’ve seen some good performances from Chris Christie, Nikki Haley, DeSantis, Tim Scott. I think there are three or four or five. But the – look, the Republican voters need to decide who that is. It’s not Donald Trump. But I think there are a number of good candidates out there.

MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean you’ve made clear you see President Trump as a threat to democracy. Not just a flawed candidate, a threat to democracy you’ve said. Upon his retirement last week, General Mark Milley, an ally of yours during your time in office, appeared to refer to him in his farewell speech as a wannabe dictator. Is that overstating things, a dictatorship?

MARK ESPER: Well, look, if you go back the week prior, Donald Trump said that Milley, for his behavior, whatever he thought that was, was – was – should be punished. And he – he talked about execution. So – which was completely unfair. Mark Milley served this country honorably for 40 plus years, in war and peace, moved – dragged his family around 20 plus times. He deserves our respect and admiration and not that type of talk, no less coming from the commander in chief – the former commander in chief.

So – so, look, I have a lot of concerns about Donald Trump. I have said that he’s a threat to democracy. I think the last year – certainly the last few months of Donald Trump’s presidency will look like the first few months of a next one, if that were to occur.

MARGARET BRENNAN: There are a number of stalled military promotions in the Senate, you know, talking about problems with democracy right now. Are you disappointed that even in Congress Republican leadership hasn’t been able to – to clear that hurdle and get the caucus in line to say that, you know, some of the highest ranking military officers in our country should get the jobs that they’ve been nominated for?

MARK ESPER: Yes, look, I’m concerned on a few levels. Look, first of all, I think Senator Tuberville’s serious in – about his concerns over the policy issues. He’s had a chance to bring them up for a vote and declined to do that. And I – I think it’s unfair to hold military nominees, over 300 now, hostage, if you will, over a policy issue for which that’s not the responsibility. That’s a civilian responsibility. And so my view is that they – that should not happen. It’s happened in the past by both parties, and I’ve called on recently Senator Schumer to start moving nominations, which he has, because otherwise it looks like both parties are politicizing the military. That’s my institutional concern.

And then, Margaret, if you step back, you ask yourself, look, the Chinese government doesn’t shut down. The Chinese government doesn’t do continuing resolutions. And they certainly don’t hold up their admirals and generals when they need them as they prepare for potential conflict with the United States. We just look really dysfunctional and we’re harming our own readiness in the process when we look across the international environment.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mark Esper, thank you for your analysis today.

We’ll be right back.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by the co-chairs of the Problem Solvers Caucus, Pennsylvania Republican Brian Fitzpatrick and New Jersey Democrat Josh Gottheimer.

Good to have you both with us.

And we’ve got a lot of problems that you do need to solve. I want to start on what we just learned in the course of this program, which was Speaker McCarthy coming out and seeming to link some movement on the border to his willingness to move a Ukraine funding bill. Then you heard Lindsey Graham says how that would go down – or he wants it to go down in the Senate. He called it a three-legged stool.

Would you get on board with what Graham proposed?

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK (R-PA): I would. I think we have a lot of challenges. I think we need to address all of them. It’s actually consistent with the Problem Solver framework that we introduced last week. It addressed keeping our government open. It addressed Ukraine. It addressed our border and expiring authorities. We dealt with several of them in the continuing resolution that passed thankfully yesterday. But there are remaining items that are unaddressed, the border and Ukraine being two of them.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But the border proposal that has passed, HR-2, that Speaker McCarthy talked about would not go anywhere in the Democratic Senate.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER, (D-NJ): That’s not going anywhere. I mean but I – but I think to Brian’s point we have to address both. And I think it’s a false choice to say we want to do one or the other. But clearly we know that we’ve – we can make it the next 45 days to support Ukraine and make sure we stand up to Putin and to China and Iran, which is critical to our national security and to our allies. But also we need to make sure that we deal with and deal with the challenges at the border and border security and live up to our values there, right?

MARGARET BRENNAN: What Graham laid out, though, was not just funding for Ukraine. It was, I mean, almost a year’s worth of funding for Ukraine. Can you get that done in 45 days?

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Well, I think we can’t – we know that we can get through the next 45 days. But it’s a matter of days and weeks and not months and years in terms of what we’ve available to make sure that we – Ukraine has what they need to stand up to Putin, (INAUDIBLE) march. So, I think we have to make sure that we get some legislation to the floor quickly. I know the speaker is open to that. He has signaled that he’s open to that. I think that’s key. And – but we also – we have other challenges and we could do more than one thing at once.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: And I do think the Ukraine funding should be for a longer period of time. It should be for a year. It sends the right message to Ukraine, it sends the right message to Russia. And it’s – it’s perhaps, I think, the best solution inside our chamber to get that done. And the border security language just, you know, in our framework was a bipartisan bill. It was Kirsten Sinema and Thom Tillis’ bill in the Senate, myself, Chair Golden (ph) in the House is a two-party solution of the border. It represents the intersection of where the two parties agree.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you think you can get the speaker on board to consider that?

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: I’m going to work hard. Yes.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You also heard today the call, a motion to vacate, to oust Speaker McCarthy from leadership. He says he can survive. Can he?

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Yes. To me, this – what’s going to be put on the floor is a choice, are we going to reward bipartisan bills being put on the floor or are we going to punish them. That is a choice.

Substitute out Kevin McCarthy’s name for Hakeem Jeffries or anyone else. If the situation were reversed and – and the squad tried to do the same to Hakeem Jeffries, should he be speaker at some point, I can tell you what I would do on the first and 100th vote. I would vote to table it. Because I don’t think that sends the right message. I think – I think what we need to do is encourage bipartisanship, encourage two-party solutions to be brought to the floor. That’s what we need. And to do the opposite would really be rewarding this Hatfield versus McCoy brand of politics that’s destroying our nation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Gaetz says he’s going to keep coming. And he can, right? He can – only one vote needed for a motion to vacate.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Yes. And that may require a change in the rules package. I mean this cannot be the trajectory for the remainder of the Congress.

MARGARET BRENNAN: To stop one person from being able to do –

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Correct. I mean that was so, keep in mind, that –

MARGARET BRENNAN: That was how Speaker McCarthy got to the leadership. That was one of the promises he made.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: That was – that was – well, that was one of the changes that was made. But we were given assurances that that was never going to be used, that it was a matter of principal that it be remained at one. So, you can’t have it both ways. And I can – 90 percent plus of the American public does not want us to be voting on a motion to vacate every day for the rest of the term.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes. Is he going to get Democrats –

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Sounds like Brian was open to Hakeem there. I don’t know.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But are Democrats going to join Gaetz?

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: You know, I –

MARGARET BRENNAN: He needs to get 218 votes.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: The way I look at this, you’ve got a civil war raging in the Republican caucus and – and has it been since the beginning, right, with extremists trying to take out common sense. And they keep doing it time and again. And so I’ll leave that to Brian. You know, that’s their caucus. And I’m from Jersey. We don’t mess with other people’s families. And so I’ll leave it to them.

But – but I’ll tell you what we’re very open to from a policy front. We continue to do this. As you saw yesterday, as you saw the debt ceiling, when – if there’s bipartisan ideas brought to the table, we’re always going to be at that table negotiating in good faith. That’s what the Problem Solvers Caucus does. It’s how we got yesterday done. Right, I you remember, that’s how yesterday happened. You had every Democrat plus one help cover for the 91 Republicans they lost. We all came together for the good of the country to stop a government shutdown and make sur we help people and help families. That’s the kind of stuff we should be sitting around a table about and negotiating in good faith. And we’ll continue to do that.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Republicans have shown they can’t govern on their own? Fair?

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Well, I’ve said the only way these things are getting done is with Democrats, right?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: And so – and bipartisan governing. And that’s good for the country. The country – people want us to put the country over party.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, can you say we won’t be back in the same place November 17th talking about a possible government shutdown?

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Well, we’re two out of 435. So we’re not in a position to make that prediction. What we can say, like we said last Sunday on a show that Josh and I appeared together, we will do whatever it takes to keep the government open. We made that pledge. We were prepared to take drastic action yesterday had that not passed the floor. We will do –

MARGARET BRENNAN: What do you mean?

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Well, there are a number of mechanisms. We could force a floor vote on our two party solution.

MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: There were options for us to do it.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Addition.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Thankfully, that’s one of many. Thankfully we didn’t have to go there, but we will do what it takes to make sure the lights are on in the United States government for sure.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: And we’re going to work around – and I think the point is, we’re going to work around the clock these next 45 days. But this cycle of insanity has to stop. And that’s what Brian and I believe, right, we need long-term solutions. We can’t keep doing this and wasting our time. We have real challenges in the country. (INAUDIBLE).

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: And this includes the debt ceiling as well.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Right. And – and –

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: We cannot be constantly on the – on the – on the 11th hour brinkmanship.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: That’s why we were behind that deal, you know.

MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s not even the debt ceiling. The FAA wasn’t going to be authorized.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: A hundred percent. A hundred percent.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Right.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: A hundred percent.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You haven’t passed into law a defense bill.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Correct.

MARGARET BRENNAN: These are the most basic things.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: But the extremists, you saw how we got there.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: These ultra-right wing extremists keep fighting against reasonableness and common sense. They refused to vote for the defense bill, right? Multiple times they kept trying to take it down.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: And that’s the point. That’s why you need bipartisan solutions right now in this Congress. It’s the only way we’re going to be able to govern.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: The extremists are the problem in this country. It’s the bipartisan moderates that are the solution. That’s what we believe in.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you have a proposal to get all of this done.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: One hundred percent. We’ve introduced –

MARGARET BRENNAN: In 45 days.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: We introduced our bill last Friday.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: It’s – it’s the only bipartisan bill. It’s equal, co-sponsors, Democrat and Republican. It represents where the intersection of the United States of America is. And that’s what our country wants. They want us to approach government the same way we approach our persona relationships.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But then you heard, I mean, as we were talking about with Senator Graham, I mean, I asked him about Donald Trump. He – he still won’t come out and support Ukraine aid. You have other presidential candidates wavering on that as well.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: He called for the government to shut down, President Trump.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So – yes.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Right.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, if people are governing by popularity polls and not by the mandate that you say you feel you have, how do you solve that? I mean these 21 Republicans are not leaving Congress.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: I can tell you the overwhelming majority of – I can tell you, the overwhelming majority of Americans support the approach that Josh and I take. You approach government the same way you approach your personal relationships. You don’t allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good. You take 80 percent of something rather than 100 percent of nothing. You come to the center, you build consensus and you move forward. That’s how all of us operate our life. It’s this loud, noisy fringe, the Hatfield versus Mccoy saber rattlers.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: Yes.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: That get all the attention. But that’s not where most of the American people are. That’s why Josh and I get attacked from the left and the right every day.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think Speaker McCarthy learned the lesson that you took away?

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: One hundred percent. And I think – yes, I mean yesterday was exhibit a, and I hope – I hope that’s a breaking point for him.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: We have a five-seat majority. That’s all they had. The only way we’re going to get stuff done for the country is by us working together. That’s the only way, as we’re seeing.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, gentlemen, thank you.

REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Thank you for having us.

REPRESENTATIVE JOSH GOTTHEIMER: You bet.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be back in a moment.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

MARGARET BRENNAN: There’s a big birthday celebration in Georgia this weekend for our 39th president. Mark Strassmann has the details.

(BEGIN VT)

CROWD (singing): Happy birthday to you.

MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): They’re celebrating a birthday in tiny Plains, Georgia.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Grab a cupcake.

MARK STRASSMANN: Jimmy Carter’s birth place 99 years ago today.

JASON CARTER (Jimmy Carter’s Grandson): Get down there and hang out as a family. You know, just be a really small, private event. He can’t party like he used to for his 99th birthday. So –

MARK STRASSMANN (on camera): None of us can.

JASON CARTER: Right. None of us can. That’s exactly right.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I love you, Jimmy Carter. Happy birthday.

MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): Americans celebrate with him. The famous.

MARTIN SHEEN, ACTOR: And happy birthday, President Carter.

MARK STRASSMANN: And the everyday.

UNIDENTIFIED Happy 99.

MARK STRASSMANN: A Jimmy Carter peanut gallery of well-wishers.

The White House wooden cake, 39 candles for the 39th president.

MARK STRASSMANN (on camera): It’s some salute considering most Americans alive today were born after Jimmy Carter left the White House in 1981 and moved back here to Plains.

JILL STUCKEY (Superintendent, Jimmy Carter National Historic Park): He’s like the father of the town. He’s the heart of the town. And we just celebrate him every day.

MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): When Carter entered hospice back in February, his family thought he had days to live. Seven months later, he’s earned all this birthday fuss.

JILL STUCKEY: He’s modest, and – but, you know, he smiles. He – he likes the attention.

MARK STRASSMANN (on camera): He’s proud of it?

JILL STUCKEY: He’s very proud of it.

MARK STRASSMANN (voice over): Jimmy and Roslyn Carter now married 77 years, will celebrate the day as true southerners, with family, fried chicken and caramel cake, his favorite.

JASON CARTER: They’ve gotten to experience this outpouring of support over these last several months that has really been gratifying

(END VT)

MARGARET BRENNAN: And we also want to wish President Carter a happy birthday from all of us here at FACE THE NATION.

Until next week, for FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.

(ANNOUNCEMENTS)

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